One of the things that came out of the Sydney Testers panel discussion on the job market last night was the complete ambivalence of ISTQB and CS degrees by the recruiters on the panel. It made no difference to their candidate selection.
As Iām relatively new to testing, my only experience with software testing certifications so far is with ISTQB Foundation level and even though it doesnāt do any harm, it didnāt have any long term value to me either, since I have forgotten most of the content by now (took the exam couple of months ago 
). This might happen when youāre obliged to memorize the content of an entire book within short period of time. There were mainly two reasons I took the exam in a first place: 1) my company requires the certification in order to move on from junior position to specialist level, 2) my darn curiosity (canāt help it)
Is that a bit of selection bias though?
The kind of recruiters who would choose to go to a tester meetup have enough involvement with the testing community to know the limited value of ISTQB whilst there are plenty more recruiters out there not close to the community who are the ones that include ISTQB on job adverts?
Probably true, Gordon, but our experience from the Midland Testers meetup here in the UK is that the number of recruiters turning up seems to keep increasing. We can only hope to continue this trend!
I agree with you that there is selection bias at play here. Also the fact that they were specialist testing and dev recruiters might also mean that they would be close enough to the industry and community to have a more realistic view of the value of ISTQB in candidate selection. It also depends on the types and preferences of the clients they have.
However they did also say that Sydney was a very competitive and crowded testing and test automation market, sometimes with 300-400 applications per place. It is surprising and welcoming in that case that they stated that ISTQB and CS degrees werenāt considered even as a candidate filter pre-interview.
I feel late to the party on this one. But it is still a highly relevant thread.
While in my tenure as a QA Lead at my current role I had been asked by a couple of my team members about training /certification. Their queries were around ISTQB and advancing through the ācareer pathsā set out in the ISTQB certification.
Many (many) years previously I did the ISEB Foundation course as I felt, at the time, that I needed formal training and a professional qualification in my field as a form of validation in my chosen career.
I felt (personally) I hadnāt gained any new insight from the course other than some terminology that could construe a common language. Over the years I discovered that the certification I received was used (by some) recruiters as a checkbox for putting people forward for jobs regardless of years experience or indeed how good they were as a tester.
I started researching other schools of thought and came across Context-Driven testing and from that, I discovered the BBST courses.
The BBST courses felt a more natural fit for my views and philosophies on testing.
So, how did I go about talking my colleagues around from continuing down the ISTQB path? I left that to them. I took a metaphor approach.
āWhen I first started driving lessons my instructor was an ex-army sergeant who taught recruits how to drive various types of vehicles. The first thing he said to me was āFirst Iām going to teach you how to drive, then Iām going to teach you how to pass your test.ā I feel the ISTQB is about teaching you how to pass their test and BBST is about showing you how to test. So do you want to learn how to test or do you want to learn how to pass a test?.ā
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Certifications gives you insight to some of techniques/methodology , which is positive aspect.
But, certification is not worth it if you donāt put the learnings into practice. Only theory and getting marks can never help to deliver quality product.
Probably Iām late, but thatās what I think:
I passed ISTQB Foundation and Advanced Test Analyst tests and do not regret about it.
The main advantages were that I systematised what I had known before, learnt some useful terms, and got a few sources which I can refer to when necessary.
Personally for me it was also great to read the materials in English (from language learning perspective).
Seems that preparation was more valuable then the test itself 
Sometimes I heard that certs might be expensive top pass, but I was lucky top pay only for Foundation (smth like Ā±150ā¬, but I may be wrong ) and won a free Advanced test.
Afterwards I tried applying some of the learnt insights (not everything was successful, but implementation experience is still interesting).
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Speaking of certifications, Iām looking to see if anyone has any familiarity with the WAS certification for web accessibility? Iām interested in trying for it, but want to make sure itās worth the investment.
Probably worth starting a separate discussion for that (WAS certification).
How did you win a free advanced test?
I got my first job out of college a few months ago as a software tester. I must have been extremely lucky because although I studied computer science in school, I had never been exposed to software testing, and I made that pretty obvious during the interview. Since then I have bought several books, and done all sorts of research online. I have no certifications, but I am tempted to pitch the idea to my boss within a few months. Although I wouldnāt mind paying for the BBST courses myself, I really like the thought of having the ISTQB Foundation Level on my resume. I skimmed through some of the posts, and I get the impression that itās just a piece of paper that might help you get a foot in the door if youāre looking for work. Other than that it seems to be rather worthless to the seasoned tester, but could prove slightly useful to younglings (like myself), if only to polish their tester-vocab.
Had my heart set on the ISTQB cert, and I am still trying to convince myself that itāll benefit me, but Iām feeling less enthused now ā¦ if my company is willing to pay, then I suppose it could only do me good in the end.
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For a new tester like yourself I would say it is worth doing the foundation course, especially if you can get your company to pay for it, just as long as you have the right expectations for what you will get out of it.
As you have picked up from the previous posts the main arguments against are that having the qualification doesnāt make you a good tester just by having it and there is far more to testing than what is covered in the course. For a person new to testing though it does give you some basic testing concepts that will help you along and introduces you to some testing terms and language, which might not be used everywhere but may help some places.
It also opens up the ability to take the more advanced ISTQB courses which seem to have a more positive reputation.
So donāt feel disheartened about wanting to do the course, if it helps you then it is the right thing to do, just as long you have the right expectations.
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That sounds great, and thank you for the reply Gordon! Do you, or anyone, know whether the foundation-level-specific training is worth investing in, or would it be sufficient to just study the ISTQB glossary and syllabus really hard?
I live in the US, and ASTQB links to vendors that offer training opportunities. That isnāt cheap though, but it does look like you can save money if you combine the training with a conference, so maybe that could be an option. Whether training is necessary is the real question though ā¦
Although the training might actually be where the value exists, and not so much in the certification itself.
Also, I am currently in the process of adding the official 2018 ISTQB Foundation Level glossary to (virtual) flashcards, and will probably have that done either today or tomorrow, and will gladly share a link to that here for anyone to use. As soon as that is done, Iāll add the link to this post.
Alright there it is. The 2018 ISTQB Foundation Level glossary in flashcard form! Enjoy!
https://quizlet.com/309008691/istqb-foundation-level-glossary-2018-flash-cards/
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I know a lot of experienced testers are advocating against certifications (here, and all other the webā¦). But certifications should not be seen as an ultimate goal.
Certifications are like university degrees. They say that you have invested some time and money on learning something. But they do not guarantee that you really learned something useful. They do not guarantee that you are good at it, either. Some of the best techies I know have no formal educating in computer science. But if you were to hire someone for a junior position, and received 200 CVs for that position, who would you interview first? I can bet you would appoint those who studied computer science first. The same goes with certifications - they do not guarantee that you are good, but in some cases, they will be necessary to help you get a job interview.
If you are willing to invest time in it, self-study for the ISTQB. I did it for the foundation and the advanced certification. Buy the book and use it to explore, instead of taking a course that will just teach you how to get a passing grade. Take your time (I would recommend at least 3 months if you are working full time on the side). Read the syllabus and the book first. Then, get comfortable with the content and use it as a basis to read and explore other things. The certification is a roadmap, but what will make you good is to explore the territory and get hands-on experience. Practice, practice, practice.
The certification will introduce you to a lot of concepts. Be curious and take time to explore these concepts. I would never have guessed that the advanced ISTQB test analyst certification would give me the necessary impulse to get back to math and explore combinatorics and statistics. And the ISTQB advanced technical test analyst drove me to security testing. Was all that required to get a passing grade? NO. Did it make me a better tester? I guess so!
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Yes.
Iāve sat the other side of the table sifting through CVs when recruiting new testers. Although I wouldnāt exclude someone because they donāt have an ISEB/ISTQB some client sites are picky and insist on some kind of cert.
Individuals and interactions over processes and toolsā¦ (sorry). So, I canāt really speak from experience, as Iāve only just started doing recruitment for our firm, but Iāve looked less at certifications than at experience and trying to gain some sort of idea of personality. If someone has some experience and enthusiasm in testing, and seems like a friendly sort, then we can look at learning and growth.
As a hiring and test capability manager (who has the foundation and Advanced TM) for a large test consultancy in NZ, Iām not a big fan of ISTQB. I sat the advanced TM back in 2013 when i was moving back home from the UK, purely because 99% of job adds said this was a pre-requisite.
Iāve interviewed and worked people who can quote the theory, but have no idea how to be fluid and pragmatic when curve balls are thrown at them during a project. On the other hand some of the best testers Iāve met and worked with/for havenāt set foot near and ISTQB book or exam. They have learned the trade like most of by falling into it, getting coached and mentored, learning from our successes and mistakes.
As part of my mentoring of the team here I encourage my team to run a lessons learned on their own performance at the end of an assignment, particularly where there have been challenges that have needed to be overcome.
The big objection I have to it, is what support do you get? what follow up do you have? If you fail, you get no idea where you failed, what you need to focus on, nothing and that IMHO is pretty rubbish.
If my team wish to take the time to study and sit the exams, do I discourage them?..No I just have an honest conversation with them and support them in what ever they decide.
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