ISTQB - That´s it! No more certification exams, as they prove nothing

(Leni ) #21

Hello Bjoern,

I am with contact with with in order to ask you if it is a big advantage in to be Pro member on MoT.
Has a big difference in terms of access to content between free and pro plan?
Thanks to help me. I’m thinking about it, but for me it it little expensive the price. I have to think about it.
Thank you.
Cheers.
Helena (Portugal)

(Bjoern Welchering) #22

Dear Helena,

first of all - welcome to the community.
What are your goals, visiting MoT? What is your profession and what is your background? Without this, I have to answer like radio yerevan: It depends …

What would you like to achieve? Would you find the time to follow the courses? Do you scan the web very often for new ideas and information? Would you like to learn new things? Will you attend the conferences?

Than yes

If you find the time to attend the master classes when they happen (only once and at a specific time), if it is sufficient for you if you discuss topics just in the club and hope to receive an answer, then probably no.

I have found the 280 € well spend, comparing with ISTQB certificates that might provide you with a piece of paper (but will, at least in Germany, cost you 200 €(book and exam costs)) or even a full course, that is around € 1500 for four days.

The content is up to date, it is easy to access, you can download the video to watch when you are on a business trip, etc.

Please DM me directly if you have any more questions.

Bjoern

1 Like
(Bjoern Welchering) #23

Dear Phil,

perfect suggestion - in security certification there are apparently courses that follow your suggested principle.

Bjoern

(Leni ) #24

Hello Bjoern,

thanks for your quickly reply.
I’m environmental engineering that switch my career for to be a tester 3 years ago. I’m tester analyst and I’m inside of a development team with 5 developers and 1 team leader.
I’m ISTQB foundation certified but I also did the Rapid Software Testing online and without doubts I really prefer the exploratory and knowledge the product though experimentation.
My goal is to learn more in order to improve my daily job. I also bought some references books and i’m reading all days before go to the bed :slight_smile:
I also would like in medium future to learn about automation because I’m a little aware about analysts roles and of course to automate repetitive tests.
I’m think about Pro subscription, maybe I’ll do it.
Thanks.
Cheers.
Helena Rodrigues (from Porto, Portugal)

(Leni ) #25

And what are master classes in Dojo Pro?

(Andy Carrington-Chappell) #26

The ISTQB certification is not relevant for an experienced tester, but it does have a little merit for the complete novice. In my current company, we typically take testers from the ranks of other business units. We do this because they already have domain knowledge which can be tricky to impart, we can then look to impart knowledge in testing. For us the ISTQB is a way to provide some basic grounding for testing terminology as well as very basic knowledge around some test practices.

This gives us a starting point, and as others have said a cert on their CVs. I hold a couple of certs and to be honest am indifferent to them. There is no substitute for experience, but if you are starting out in a new profession a cert might come in handy to open doors.

2 Likes
(Bjoern Welchering) #27

Hi Helena,
the Masterclasses are announced by MoT and are usually on specific topics.
As a pro member you can download the sessions afterwards, as a regular member you have to be online, when the classes are held.
Bjoern

(Louise) #28

It is such a strange coincidence that I happened to read this while on the train to take the ISTQB Advanced Test Manager course. I think the issues you raise are perfectly valid … when talking about the foundation course. But the foundation course is exactly what it is designed to be. A course that provides the basic foundations of software testing. Its never meant to be anything more than that.

My main criticism of the foundation course is that you have to take it before taking the advanced courses, regardless of how much experience you already have. The foundation course is great for someone who is very new to software testing (I only had 6 months experience when I took the course so found it very beneficial). However, someone with several years experience shouldn’t have to take it. They should start thinking about advanced courses.

The advanced course was brilliant. Not only was the learning more in depth, but we also need to actually apply that knowledge. The exam questions are scenario based - we are given a scenario and have to answer the question based on that scenario. The questions are still multiple choice, but we are required to actually apply the knowledge instead of simply memorise it. The entire course is a lot harder and a lot more interesting.

4 Likes
(Simon) #29

I kind of the feel the same about it all, and I’ve been down the same path as you. There seems to be a lot of bashing going on - sometimes (not always before I’m pounced on) by people who have only experienced the foundation (or not even that), or perhaps browsed the syllabus and then dismissed it. I will never dismiss a candidate out of hand for not having it.

What I did find interesting when I sat my advanced test manager course at an assessment centre I was given a ‘there and then result’ which was a fail with around 50%. I scratched my head, chalked it up to experience and resolved to do some more work and have another go later. Two weeks after that I got an email saying there was essentially a bug in their online marking system and I had passed with a little over 80%. Some more testing required…

3 Likes
(Chris) #30

I think the bashing comes from a conflation of the course and the certification. I don’t know much about what the course is like, but I do know that I don’t trust the certification exam to prove that that person is a good tester, or that they did the course well, or in fact anything at all. I like to see courses of any kind because it shows interest, but then the beneficial effects have to be proven the hard way because the certifications aren’t helpful.

I have seen course syllabi that made me despair before. I have also tried the ISTQB example exam and I found that it was very poorly put together with awfully designed questions and the subject matter was unhelpful and often not relevant. I also believe that the ISTQB is a money-for-certifications program designed with a financial incentive to create a barrier-to-entry to the testing industry and as such the content of the course need not be any good, even if it is. So while I don’t know the course, and I cannot possibly say that it’s awful, I can say that the provided exam did not impress me and I don’t believe that the purpose of the course is to make better testers. It may be awesome but I certainly wouldn’t put money on it.

2 Likes
(Simon) #31

I generally agree. But mostly I agree with that about all certifications / qualifications. I work with electronics and software engineers. Most of the people I have worked with hold a degree certificate in a relevant field (I don’t), and yet the variation in their ability to get the job done has been astounding. Degree courses now seem to be an exercise in bums on seats, which is a shame - and I suppose the ISTQB qualifications are a mirror of that to some degree. The degree is usually a barrier to entry on software engineering jobs (at least in the UK that has been my experience) - but it doesn’t guarantee that only quality candidates end up with a degree at the end of it.

None of that makes the ISTQB any more fit for purpose, but it is interesting. Generally I’ve found some excellent tutors from various companies that enrich the experience which has maybe skewed my view a bit.

2 Likes
(Bjoern Welchering) #32

Hi all,

I did not expect to start this kind of discuss, just because I was on a personal rant just from the fact, that I complained about my personal situation.

However, I hope that someone from the ISTQB or any Testing Board is reading into this - I believe we can change the current situation by going for new ways of teaching new testers and use technology and forum like MoT - I am not saying that this is perfect (as long as you have content that can be biased by a sponsor or a manufacturer).

Looking forward to learn more and better on MoT

Bjoern

3 Likes
(Gerard) #33

I’d subscribe to this as well. A great tutor/mentor/trainer can really bring material to life, to give it real-world meaning, to help get across abstract or esoteric points.

It’s also a good way to view the ISTQB material … as exactly that, material. When it’s brought to life, or applied, that’s when it becomes valuable. Unfortunately the approach they’ve taken is book knowledge leading to an exam. They’ve arguably not prepared testers to go out into the world, or at least they could perhaps prepare them differently/better.

That being said, the material may have some inherent value as material, as a tool fot the trainer… I think that’s where I appreciate ISTQB, but their competition definitely has a leg-up when it comes to the practical side. …And which is more useful in the real world? Understandably, ISTQB gets a knocking…