Tips to Improve Collaboration Between Testers and Developers Masterclass - Further Discussion


(Heather) #1

Our final masterclass of 2017 was with the fantastic duo that is @maaret and @franzi. There was a huge turnout to the masterclass so we may not have gotten to your question or you might have thought of one afterwards.

Some of our Pro Dojo members may be catching up by watching the recording on The Dojo.

Feel free to ask any questions you might have here however you chose to tune in :slight_smile:


How to change the "us against them" mindset?
(Heather) #2

The book mentioned at the end of the Masterclass:


(Heather) #3

Some questions that we didn’t get to in the masterclass.

From @amit.wertheimer

When working with some developers, I get the feeling they view testing as “magic” that requires a tester - even for some basic stuff. How can I help dispel this illusion?

From David

What would you say is the most succinct argument to a tester that pairing with programmers is valuable to both parties?

@paulioceano (hope I’ve tagged the correct user here)

I’m a developer trying to change my career and become a tester… Do you have any advice on how to deal with both types of thoughts during the transition?

@klara asked a question about a term used during the webinar

Hi, what is meant by “automation testers”? do you mean testers that use tools that serve the purpose of running any automated checks?


(Paulimar ) #4

Yes, the correct user is @paulioceano


(Aileen) #5

Hiya. I have missed the masterclass last night and would really like to know what has been discussed. I am not a Pro user so I can’t watch the recording. Is there anywhere on the site where I can find the information?


(Heather) #6

Hi @redlipz06, if you want to get an idea of what was discussed, you could look on Twitter under the hashtag #DojoMasterclass. The information on the site is restricted to Pro users after the event I’m afraid. Hopefully you will get to join us for the next one.


(Viv) #7

Hi Aileen,
I took a few notes which may be of interest - I’ve messaged you them on here.

Thanks,
Viv


(Aileen) #8

Brilliant! Thank you so much @vivrichards!

I have also found the slides they used last night on Twitter. Thanks @heather_reid for the tip.


(Charles) #9

We had some training involving that book, and I would definitely recommend the training at least.

I haven’t read the book, but the mindset is a really helpful one for having tough conversations.


(Maaret) #10

Let’s take each of the remaining questions in their own thread - would love to see more of a discussion stir up on any of these!

From @amit.wertheimer

When working with some developers, I get the feeling they view testing as “magic” that requires a tester - even for some basic stuff. How can I help dispel this illusion?

I think I know what you mean. I’ve even had developers who say that the thing that I do (finding bugs where there shouldn’t have been any - with intent) is magic. And some of it really is magic of persistence and practice. But a lot of it is just persistence. Giving an application quality time is magical.

Sometimes I find developers would like to bundle all of the basics of testing into the same magic “why would I do it, you will do it anyway and probably find still issues even after me”.

I find that the only thing that has helped me is pairing, and mobbing. Sharing the experience of what the “magic” is about.

And making sure developers are encouraged to use time on testing is often relevant too. Sometimes they don’t see magic, they see boring work they rather skip with framing it as “magic”.


(Maaret) #11

From David

What would you say is the most succinct argument to a tester that pairing with programmers is valuable to both parties?

Learning and contributing. Getting the best out of both of us in the work we’re doing.

Learning is superpower. If we would learn to be 1% better (4 min) every day investing an hour into learning, we would be ahead of those who don’t learn in 28 days. We could invest as much as 5.5 hours of every day into that 1% to be ahead of others in a year.


(Maaret) #12

@paulioceano (hope I’ve tagged the correct user here)

I’m a developer trying to change my career and become a tester… Do you have any advice on how to deal with both types of thoughts during the transition?

My advice is timeboxing (reserving time dedicated for a thing). It is, in my experience, very easy to feel you excel in both ways of thinking, and making yourself time when you actively, primarily think with one mindset is a good way of coping with that.


(Maaret) #13

@klara asked a question about a term used during the webinar

Hi, what is meant by “automation testers”? do you mean testers that use tools that serve the purpose of running any automated checks?

We mean testers who use programming as a means to run their tests.


(Franziska) #14

@paulioceano I can also advice you to get closer to the tester community, joining the testers.io slack and going to local meetups and conferences. But since you’re already here, you might already know :slight_smile: